For my fifteenth birthday, my aunt Katherine gave me a recording that 
she made with a friend of hers who was also an astrologer in her spare 
time (Kaka is actually a psychiatrist, by profession, and Carol Ward
used to run a children's clothing store) which analyzes my birth chart.  

I found it recently, and thought it had some very astute things to say
sprinkled throughout.  Of course, some things are very wrong, in my
opinion, and there are even outright inconsistencies within the things
they say.

But it is educational.


***


my aunt Kaka: Okay, now we're recording, this is Marilyn Cole.
Today is August 21, 1995.  Okay, go ahead.

her friend Carol Ward: Well, Marilyn, I'm really sorry but I'm just a
misanthropic astrologer.  When I see Venus on the ascendent, it
requires that there be a lot of depth of character to overcome that--

K: Wait a minute, you mean, Aries on the ascendant--

C: Aries on the ascendant, what did I say?

K: Venus.

C: Oh, sorry, when I see Aries on the ascendent, right away I look for
some depth of character to try to... Aries is a baby, I want to see
things that give this person... that round out their character and give
them depth of soul and the ability to reflect, and... philosophical
depth of character.  Then the moon being in Gemini in the second
house... is a little bit airy for the moon, putting it in the second
house-- tell me, Katherine, help me out here.  So, tell me what the
moon in Gemini in the second house means.

K: Well, what do you think?

C: Well, I think that it's...

K: It's pretty flighty there.

C: Flighty, but not necessarily straightforward.  Venus in Virgo in the
6th, Jupiter in Virgo in the 6th, lots of stuff that the ego is not
going to allow her to look at.

K: Why do you say that?

C: Well, because... ok, Venus is not happy in Virgo, and then you stick
it in the 6th house, and you've got some pretty uptight thinking.

K: Double Virgo influence on Venus.

C: Oh, yeah, I mean, this person might think that taking birth control
pills causes cancer, you know?  And it might in this person!  Because
you've got... I mean, this is a very uptight, problem-infested chart.
I'm sorry, but... And with all fairness, I always have a problem with
Virgo, explain to her, I'm very subjective about Virgo, I see the
negative sides of Virgo, but you put Venus and Jupiter in Virgo in the
6th house...  What are the aspects to it?

K: Well, let's see, it's square to Neptune.

C: <sigh> Okay, she could give herself ovarian cancer from taking birth
control pills.

K: Or from worrying too much.

C: Worrying that that's the possible link.

K: Well, the way out for Virgo is service.  Virgo has to learn to
submerge itself in unselfish service to others to redeem itself.

C: Well, if she's not in the medical field, she should be.

K: Well, that's what I think.

C: That's an excellent place for her to be, would be in the medical
field, with all of that, but at the same time, she needs to be more of
a help to herself before she can be helpful to other people, because
this individual has so many unresolved problems that I don't... I hope
the world is forcing her to look at them.  She's going to require
specific kinds of environments, in order for her to transcend some of
the initial problems in this chart.  You put all that Scorpio in the
seventh house, and um... God, there aren't any aspects to anything, are
there?

K: Let's see now... Yeah...

C: All that stuff in the 6th and the 7th house, I mean, those are the
areas that she... Career and Men.  And Service and Men.

K: Uranus is sextile to Venus and Jupiter.  And so is Mercury.

C: Okay, well, everything happening there is happening in one-on-one
relationships and service, personal vitality, and a real, real strange
attitude towards money.  I don't know how that moon fits into all this,
but having it sit in the 2nd house... marry a doctor.  Or something
coming from other people.  Or being able... I don't know.

K: Well, it's interesting that the moon is over by itself.  All the
other planets are clustered into basically 3 houses, and the moon sits
way across from everything.  It is trine to Saturn, and it's loosely
opposed Mars.  So it really seems to be a focal point in the chart, is
that Gemini moon.

C: But why stick it in the 2nd house?  Isn't that interesting?  The
moon in Gemini in the 2nd house is not...

K: Well, I think of it, the 2nd house is your personal values, and
money, but also, your values, and your self image, your self esteem.
And I think moon in Gemini there would mean real sudden changes in
self-esteem, just on an ongoing basis.  I'm wonderful, I'm awful, I'm
wonderful, I'm awful kind of thinking, just running the gamut--

C: Well, you realize that this person is going to be *bombarded* by
transit.  You want to talk about...

K: Yeah, cause the degrees are everywhere--

C: Pardon?

K: The thing is that she's got, her planets are all at different
degrees--

C: There's either nothing happening or the world's coming to an end all
the time.  You know what I'm saying?  Real swings in what's going on in
her life.  Rather than, you know, things being salt-and-pepper through
your life?  Whenever anything opposes or transits that third quarter of
the sky, Virgo, Libra, and Scorpio, anything transiting: squaring,
opposing.  It starts with it being conjunct to her ascendent, and then
just goes downhill.  And it happens, the hard aspects happen to her in
her 3rd house, brothers and sisters, and pets, and short trips, and the
first house, which is the head, the face, the personal being.  And the
ninth and tenth house.  So anytime any planet transits her 10th house,
her 1st house or her 3rd house, she gets clobbered, you see what I'm
saying?

K: Yeah, I mean, but the trines are also the same thing, so she's got
long good periods, too.

C: Right, but it's a real dramatic swing, when you've got that many
planets all clustered together, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like
that, it's be very interesting-- I've never seen a chart quite like
this, and that's what I love about this, is that it's so complicated,
is that I don't know quite what to make of it, only because it's so
unusual.

K: Mmm-hmm.

C: All that Scorpio in the 7th house is not happy with all that Venus
and Jupiter in the 6th house, because they're opposing parts, opposing
belief systems.  You've got the sun in Scorpio in the 7th house and
Mercury in Scorpio in the 7th house, and *Uranus* in Scorpio in the 7th
house.  Those behaviors do *not* sit well with Venus in Virgo in the
6th.  Would you agree?

K: Yeah, except for the fact that Scorpio and Virgo both have to do
with health and healing, and they *are* sextile to eachother.

C: No, no, no, no. I'm talking about the sexual practices, the power
games between men and women, specifically.  Think of all the things
that the 7th house represents.

K: Yeah, I think this is somebody who's capable of very strong
attachments to partners and would probably like to be...

C: In charge of those partnerships?

K: Yes, well, Scorpio likes power, but also... I think there's...

C: There's a struggle for power within all personal relationships,
would you say that?  It's very pronounced, on a personal level.  I
would be *astonished* if this person was happily married for 35 years
to the same person.  And if that's the case, I want to see his chart!
Because that would be an amazing feat.  Because that power struggle, if
it can express itself, like, sexually, in the 7th house, first of all,
it's important that it does in the 7th house, Venus in Virgo in the 6th
is *miserable* in that.  Venus in Virgo can't have sex with the lights
on.

K: Well, she better marry someone that she's in love with.  The only
way she's going to overcome that, she's not going to be able to marry
for money and be happy.  I think that she's going to have to marry for
love, and then maybe she'll be able to reconcile all that Venus in
Virgo with all that Scorpio in the 7th house.

C: I'm surprised that you say that, because when I see the Moon in
Gemini in the 2nd, I see somebody absolutely marrying for money.

K: By itself, yeah.

C: That money is a major attraction, intellectual attraction.

K: Well, hopefully, she'll fall in love with someone who has money.

C: Money comes to them through their wits. The values are so changable
based on personal circumstance.  Remember Aries on the ascendent,
I-I-I, me-me-me, and I will try on and I will wear the values necessary
for me.

K: The moon is trine Saturn in Libra, it's a really close trine to
Saturn in Libra, so there is some discipline to that Gemini moon.
That's a real nice aspect there.

C: And Saturn in Libra is a nice place.  It's just that... I don't
know, why do I do this?  I just look at this chart, and I go "Ugh, this
girl needs a psychiatrist!"  <laughter> And it's entirely possible,
that if she's a friend of yours, that she *is* a psychiatrist!  And
that's the scary part!

K: Are you about to insult me again?

C: No, no!  I'm saying that, first of all, because of the way these
planets are, I have a terrible feeling that she's been put in charge of
helping people, and she's coming from a very limited range of
experience.  She probably knows the books, knows the work, but doesn't
have the broader... the range is too limited to be able to instruct
anybody else, too many personal problems to be able to truly be of any
help to anyone else.  Does that make sense to you?

K: Yeah...

C: I know, you always hate what I say!

K: Well, you're making--

C: You know and like this person and don't want me saying these
things.  I'm just telling you what the chart says.  You know how I am,
I want to know if the rules of astrology work.  And have I said
anything that is outside the rules of astrology?

K: No, I think that, that... yeah.  You don't think she ought to be a
psychiatrist, is what you're saying.

C: I think in order for this person to be helping other people, with
Venus and Jupiter in Virgo in the 6th house, I think she's probably
drawn to, if not medical, teaching, nursing, helping, you know, in some
way, thinking she can, and getting the schooling, and doing it, but
without the life skills to really maximize her impact, to really be
able to do a decent job at what she's doing.   Because of the way the
dice were thrown, you've got a very immature ascendent, together with a
flighty moon that tries on and changes values based on... the
values...  A lot of mentoring probably going on here too.  I would
expect, let's see, an older male mentor.  This person is very gullible
to that circumstance.

K: Was that Saturn?

C: Which is probably only part of the puzzle.  The moon in Gemini is
impressed easily, with this one and then that one, based on that
person's credentials, because Jupiter in Virgo in the 6th house is
going to like those credentials, without seeing the bigger picture.

K: Yeah, the moon in Gemini is going to do that too.

C: Yeah.  Being trine to Libra gives it a little more insight, but this
person is handicapped--

K: We're all handicapped.

C: (exasperated) I *know*!  I *know* we're all handicapped.  I'm
handicapped.  Do you want me to confess to my own?  Would that be
better?

K: No, no...

C: You just want to save her from me, is that it?

K: Well, essentially, when you say things like "This person is
handicapped" you neglect to mention that every chart has handicaps in
it, and it might help to know that every chart has handicaps, so she
won't feel like the only person in the world.

C: If I tell this person one thing, it would be to be cautious of male
mentors, and that--

K: Not that they wouldn't be good for her, she just has to be careful--

C: Extremely.

K: --how she chooses them, because she could benefit quite a bit from
mentors.

C: Right.  And that in this lifetime, she needs to do something about
elevating that ascendent from me-me-me, I-I-I, because even though
they've got these planets going we-we-we and what I can do for you, the
doing for you, or the doing for *anyone* else, is based on satisfying
the me-me-me, I-I-I too much.  It's a childlike thing.  I wouldn't want
to see her in a position of authority too quickly.  She needs to stay a
student in life.

K:  Yeah, and when you say she should be in the medical field, what it
sounds like you're saying is that she could do well in the medical
field, but that she--

C: As a nurse, not a doctor--

K: Well, maybe not even dealing with patients directly.

C: That's right.  Well... yeah, being helpful, but this is not a heart
surgeon, and if it is... it shouldn't be.

K: Well, maybe it's a researcher.

C: Well, yeah, okay.  But I'm thinking in terms... let's focus here
again on the problem of those two wonderful planets in Virgo, next to
all of those highly sexual, power-oriented, personal planets in the 7th
house.  That's what I see as a... that's a real strange... see, the
thing is, I can't put my finger on how it'd manifest in her life.
Where do children enter into this?  Well, according to the rules of
astrology as I interpret them, children are one way for her to learn
larger lessons.  That's her, like her escape route from this particular
chart.

K: Yeah, I interpret the North Node that way.

C: Forced pennance?

K: Well, but this is also someone who'd really *enjoy* her children
with Leo on the fifth house.  She needs to learn to enjoy life.  To be
creative and fun and spontaneous, because all that Virgo and Scorpio
can get real heavy.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: The moon in Gemini and the North Node in Leo really lighten her up.
And I guess Neptune and Mars in Sag can lighten her up too.

C: But it's all in the 8th house!

K: I know, it's real hidden.  So basically, she's got the moon and the
North Node to help her have fun in life.

C: I don't know... tell me why I'm this way when I do charts.  I'm just
always this way when I do charts, but don't you think that this is an
*extreme* chart?

K: Well, in a lot of ways, I think it is.  I'm real struck by the
concentration of planets in one quadrant.

C: Me too!  And the fact that, although there's nothing in itself wrong
with the Sun and Mercury in Scorpio in the 7th house, that would tell
me that yeah, she's going to have power struggles with her husband.
Okay?  Or her boyfriends, or with men in general, or with one-on-one
relationships.  And then Uranus in the 7th house would mean, probably
falls in love quickly.

K: And out of love just as quickly...

C: Yeah, in and out.

K: Although, Uranus, that may be, because--

C: If you end up telling me that this is some woman who has been a
librarian for 14 years, married to a husband, living in the suburbs of
Atlanta with 4 happy children, I'm going to have to rethink
*everything* because--

K: Well, don't worry.

C: Because that is not what's going on in this chart.

K: It hasn't happened.

C: Yeah!  And it ain't gonna happen.  She got a lot to work through in
this lifetime, and my fear is that she's not even looking, that she
doesn't even know that there's a problem.  Things don't work, but she
don't know why!  Cause, see, Virgo is not very reflective, it's
reactive.

K: Scorpio's reflective.

C: Okay, Scorpio's reflective, but she doesn't even know that's going
on in the 6th house, she doesn't even know what's happening in the 6th
house, and how it reacts...  Children... the children help.  Children
will help.  That's all I can say: Children will help.  This person is
doomed to make a lot of bad decisions based on things she will not or
cannot look at.

K: What do you mean by bad decisions?

C: Bad life decisions.

K: Well, the moon in Gemini in the 2nd house, there does seem to be a
non-attachment to values.  It seems like she's going to be rocked
around until she gets a solid sense of values, and that's really
what... she's probably going to be exposed to a lot of different values
and will ultimately have to chooose which ones to make her own.  But
she's going to be learning that from other people, especially her
intimate relationships, because Scorpio, well, Scorpio in the 7th
house, she is going to be drawn into power struggles with people and
manipulations, and contests of will with people, but she's going to
learn quite a bit from those.

C: Well, I want to know what she's going to learn from Venus and
Jupiter being in the 6th house in Virgo.  I mean, those are--

K: Marilyn, Carol does not like Virgo, she's never been nice to Virgo
in any person's chart--

C: Now wait a minute--

K: <laughs>

C: Do you think this-- Venus and Jupiter in the 6th house in Virgo, on
their own, what a nice place for those planets: this is someone who can
be very helpful, very intelligent, very learned, very bookish.  But
when you square it to Neptune, we're talking about some very strange,
very *anal* ideas about personal hygiene and health, not to mention
sex.  When I said Venus in Virgo won't have sex with the lights on,
hey.  You know, that's a real painful area, whether it's a feeling of
inadequacy, a problem of they don't think they're pretty, they don't
think they're sexual, they're concerned that they have bad breath, body
odor, either that or the other person does.  Those are things that are
compounded when you have Aries on the ascendent.

K: Well, Virgos do tend to be perfectionists, and they can certainly
trip themselves up by insisting on things being too perfect, or
worrying about things that aren't too perfect in their ideas.

C: You know what?  We never get any answers back on these things, I'm
tired of not getting anything back on these things-- I want to know--
this person, it seems to be that this person would've had a good role
model in her father, with the moon trine Saturn.  When I said, beware
male role models, I'm wondering whether or not, I want to know what her
relationship with her father was like.  Now can you just-- you never
come back to me with any of these things.  The only way I can find out
if the things I'm getting off these charts are correct, is if I get
some feedback, and I *never* get feedback from you!

K: What I've found is that a lot of, when you listen to a tape, you
don't necessarily hear everything right away.  It takes a lot of time
for some things to percolate down.  But I would say that she has a good
relationship with her father--

C: Her father gave her some very important things.  Where does Mom fit
into all this?  Mom and Dad got along well, okay?

K: How to you get that?

C: Well, because the moon is trine to Saturn.  Her mother and father
were intellectual equals.  The mother representative of values, and the
father representative of the ability to think and work.  Came from a
nice home.  Okay, if you tell me this person's father left when she was
3 years and beat the mother mercilessly, I want to come back and look
at this chart and see where it is!  Because I don't see it in this
chart.

K: Okay, I agree with you.  That's true, I know that.

C: Okay, we're having someone, who, also, probably, because of nice,
normal middle-class circumstances, has remained a baby and has not had
to look at the problems she was born with.  Those problems may not have
been challenged.  Things just don't work.  I think in this person's
case, astrology will unlock and say, "This is why it doesn't work.  It
doesn't work because you have Venus and Jupiter in the 6th house in
Virgo, and  Mercury and the sun in Scorpio in the 7th!"  Those
are not happy!  They're not compatible.  That's the area of problem.

K: Because they have...

C: They have competing ideas, they have competing agendas.

K: Well, you can't say that, completely.  Because they are in as--

C: No, they're not!

K: --Virgo and Scorpio are sextile to eachother in the sky, so there
*is* a natural harmony between them.  They're both feminine signs.  But
what you are saying, I think, is that Scorpio is noted to be extremely
sexual, and Virgo is noted to be...

C: Anal.

K: <laughs> Yeah.  But Virgo is also an earth sign.  So it has the
ability to transcend some of its anal-ity, but it has to do it
through--

C: Okay, but what about Venus square Neptune?

K: Wait a minute, let me finish, but it has Venus and Jupiter can
transcend that Virgo anal-ity, but they do it through selfless service,
and forgetting the self--

C: Oh, really?  With Aries on the ascendent?

K: I'm just saying how you get out of Venus and its fall in Virgo.
Venus in its fall in Virgo tends to be too critical, and the way you
overcome being too critical is to be more aware of service to others.
And that's the way out.  I agree, there's a lot of me first in this
chart.

C: And me first is not going to give this person happiness.

K: Right, exactly.  This person is going to be happy when she learns
not to put herself first.

C: Well, I would *love* to see a history of this person's
inter-personal relationships with friends and boyfriends, again also,
with Venus square to Neptune, there's that icky-sticky feeling, of
making oneself sick--

K: You haven't noticed this yet, but this person is only 14.

C: Ohhh.  I hadn't the slightest idea.

K: Yeah, I know.  So a lot of this is yet to be determined.

C: Yeah, that's good, it's early enough so that maybe if she sees
something like this...  Very interesting... Maybe through other
children?  So she can go into medicine, she can go into teaching, she
can go into being a librarian, being a researcher.  It'd be interesting
to see if she makes good grades...

K: What would you assume?

C: My assumption is that she does, but that she doesn't get along
well.  With other people.

K: Why do you say that?

C: For the same reasons I see in Tristan with all those planets in
Scorpio.  At first, especially when you're young, you end up using your
gifts to manipulate the system, and with the moon in Gemini in the 2nd
house, the values are going to be tough to establish to begin with.
She's going to fight for this chart.  She's going to try to defend
this, and make this status quo.  The norm.  And okay.  And acceptable,
and sucessful.  And by its very layout, it is not.  It requires major
challenges.

K: What you're saying is this chart will mature her.  Isn't that true--

C: Yeah, she's going to fight it all the way.  And with Mercury is
Scorpio, she's going to be able to present a case for herself.

K: She thinks she already knows it.

C: She thinks she already knows everything.  And she's probably able to
take great short-cuts in the world, she's going to be able to con the
system.  And it's all going to be for nought.  Because conning the
system is not the way out for this chart.  Of course, I'm not sure what
the way out of this chart *is.*

K: The other thing, I see a lot of a need to serve... Pisces is on the
12th house, but... Virgo and Scorpio, to me, are very similar in the
sense that they both have to do with service.  One, Scorpio, Scorpio
needs to be needed.  And Virgo is all about working, being subject to
doing for other people.  The only way to be happy yourself is to be
doing for other people.

C: And that's what nice about that Saturn in Libra there.  She has the
discipline to do it.  The problem is, she can't be helpful to anyone
else until she does something about recognizing---


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


K: Mention the date here, it's December the 9th, 1995.  Okay, what were
you going to say?

C: I would've remembered this, because it's a basket configuration,
with the moon being the handle of the basket.  I mean, it's a little
off-center, it's not exact, but it's close enough.  Well, to me, that's
the foremost thing on the chart.  Aries on the ascendent being somewhat
out-of-step with the rest of these placements.  None of these
placements are consistent with an Aries ascendent.

K: Well, maybe that's why she appears so different from what I think is
really there.  I mean, she comes across as being very bubbly and
outgoing, but I think there's a really deeply serious person inside of
there.

C: You've got the sun and Mercury and Uranus in the 7th house in
Scorpio, so in one-on-one, she's very adept at manufacturing the image
that she wants you to see.  Mercury in Scorpio, retrograde, would mean
she's also capable of... very measured in her... it may appear to be
bubbly, but there's nothing bubbly happening there.  The bubbly is
manufactured.  When you've got Mercury retrograde in Scorpio in the 7th
house, when this person's in a one-on-one situation, she's like laying
in wait, waiting until she gets enough information to know how it's
safe to proceed.  You know, the Scorpio guarded business.

K: Oh, yeah.  Especially retrograde.  So, yeah... I agree.

C: Mmm-hmm.  A very very excellent observer.

K: Very perceptive of others, huh?

C: Very perceptive of other people.  A lot more depth there than-- see
that's the part I don't understand, giving this person an Aries
ascendent, belies this... clump <laughs> over there in the 6th and 7th
house.

K: Yeah, that's kind of what I see too.  The Aries rising and the
Gemini moon both.

C: And also the Neptune in Sag in the 8th house.  It'd be interesting
to see whether or not she is affected by this Pluto in Sagittarius
thing that's happening right now, the Neptune in Capricorn, Pluto in
Sagittarius, whether she's perceiving the changes going on.  Because I
see a correlation in her chart because she's got Neptune in Sag in the
8th house, which is all those same players, just a different
combination of those same players, Mars being a cold ruler of Scorpio,
being in the 8th house in Sag.  I think she understands innately, this
is not something she has to be taught about the power of... she
probably sees power structures...

K: I think she's real good.  I mean, she doesn't say much very often,
but sometimes she really surprises me with her understanding of the
occult and things that most people just...  You know how every now and
then, people drop a hint, about something, and you realize that their
understanding is much, much, much deeper than anybody could have
imagined, just by one comment?  She does that from time to time, and
I'm taken aback by it.  I think, these are things that it took me a
lifetime to figure out, and they just seem to come really naturally to
her.

C: Well, she's not immersed in spirituality.  When you've got Neptune
in Sag, and the moon in Gemini, this is not someone who's immersed
in...

K: Well, yeah, she doesn't have a lot of 9th house stuff...

C: Yeah, and she wouldn't necessarily want to be an actor, or a singer,
or a performer, because this welling up inside of her wanting to
perform... well, it's interesting though... no, cause I'm on the verge
of taking that back.

K: Well, you know what she wants to be right now?  She wants to be a
bioengineer?    She's real interested in genetics and genetic
research, I mean, I guess.  Jurassic Park really fired her
imagination.

C: Well, Venus and Jupiter in Virgo in the 6th house...

K: Yeah, all that 6th house stuff, and the Scorpio stuff, too.

C: Mmm-hmm.  Yeah, I think any kind of research... She makes her own
limelight.  So she doesn't have to be performing.

K: Yeah, that's true.  She doesn't have to.  She likes attention, when
there's people around, but I think she's also real capable of being by
herself.

C: Yeah, no, she gets plenty of attention.  There's no craving of
attention that I can see.  What are the aspects?

K: Well, let's see, Venus is square to Neptune.

C: And Saturn is trine the moon.

K: Yeah, Saturn's trine the moon, and there's a lot of conjunctions,
obviously.

C: So we're talking about a real airy moon here.  I mean, even with the
moon being trine to Saturn, she's sort of protected from these heavy,
heavy-hearted issues in life.  She can elevate them.  Whether you want
to call it rationalize... disappointments, failures.  That's a real
nice...  Saturn in Libra being exalted, being trine to that moon in
Gemini, real intellectual approach to life.  I don't see her having to
worry terribly about money all her life, either.

K: I don't think she will.

C: But it's also not foremost in her agenda, it's just not an issue,
money is a non-issue.

K: Even with the moon in the second house, you think it's a non-issue?

C: But it's in Gemini.  It's not like she has to... this isn't someone
who's going to have to struggle, or whose efforts are aimed
specifically at gathering belonging, or accumulation.  Even if she
accumulates, she won't be thinking of it as accumulating.  There's not
that influence.  I like Gemini in the 2nd house.  But trine to Saturn
in Libra is what I'm saying, okay?  Abundance will be a natural side
effect of Saturn in Libra, in the 6th house.  So abundance just sort of
happens.

K: Yeah, because she looks like she's going to be a very hard worker
throughout her life, and money will come to her easily.

C: Yeah, money is not an issue.

K: This chart is too clustered to have a lot of aspects other than
conjunctions.  Venus is square to Neptune though, and Neptune is also
trining the North Node.

C: She does have the moon opposing Mars.  That's the only opposition.

K: She fell and bumped her head a lot when she was little.  She has a
scar on her cheek from one of her injuries.

C: See, I don't understand Mars in Sagittarius in the 8th.  I'm having
a hard time getting a handle on that, being opposing the Moon in Gemini
in the 2nd.

K: I think that she is--it's not just because she's trying to please
me--I think that on her own she is, on her own right, very interested
in the occult.  You know, what's not obvious.  She just did a paper,
for school, on astrology.  On the *history* of astrology.

C: That's interesting, with the Mars in Sag, to do something for
academia, on the occult.  Maybe she'll put some sort of metaphysical
spin on the work that she does.  Someone like Chopra, who talks about
metaphysical possibilities that have physiological roots.  The physics
of metaphysics.

K: Yeah, I agree.  Her father's a civil engineer, he's very science,
he's very reality based, so she's got that background.  And I think
that's what I struggle to do all the time, too, is provide a scientific
foundation for metaphysics.

C: But in your chart you've got other agendas going on.

K: Well, that's true, but I think that you influence the people around
you, and they influence you.  I think there's a reason that you're
drawn together in a lifetime.

C: But I like the fact that this chart doesn't have any planents in
Leo, or any planets in Aries, or any... if they're going to be in Fire,
they're in Sag, which is the least...

K: Self-involved.

C: Self-involved.  So it makes this person able to address things
without having the other battles in life with ego and status and
self-image and all the other things that a lot of people have to deal
with.  She's sort of elevated from those things, although maybe a
*little* too secretive.  I want to say unable to be who she is in the
environment she's in.  You make it sound like she's very comfortable in
this environment.

K: No, I don't think she is.

C: I think she's very comfortable with her father.

K: Why do you say that?

C: Well, beause of Saturn in Libra in the 5th house.  He's her
teacher.

K: It trines the moon, the moon is her mother.

C: Well, maybe her father and mother get along.  But I think that she
has things in her chart, areas of understanding, that are somewhat
closed off to her mother, and probably her father, too.

K: Oh, to anybody, except maybe a partner at some point.  With all that
Scorpio in the 7th house.

C: There's a loneliness, that I see.  I'd be interested to see if this
is somebody that has a *lot* of friends, or someone who is best
one-on-one, but you've got Mercury in retrograde in the 7th house, who
*likes* to be alone, doesn't share a lot with a lot of people.

K: No... I think she gets along with everybody, but that she does tend
to prefer one-on-one.  I mean, that's my guess.  She has a best
friend.  But, I agree with you.  It looks like what she prefers are
very intense, very personal, intimate one-on-one relationships.  With
all that Libra, and Scorpio in the 7th house... it just, that whole
concentration of energy in just 3 houses, basically.

C: Yeah, I know!  Isn't that something?  In Virgo, Libra, Scorpio--

K: And Sag.  Four signs, but 3 houses.  Very focused energy--

C: But *opposing* the moon in Gemini.  See, that's why I want to go
back to that one, because that is one very hard aspect: the moon
opposes Mars.  It could be that that's her intellectual-- you know,
that's my own problem with moon in Gemini, that's my own placement, is
that it doesn't have any soul.  It doesn't burst into tears at Hallmark
commercials.  When you see someone who has this much *intellectual*
interest in the metaphysical or the occult, someone who can have a foot
in both worlds, who can explain the physics of metaphysics--and this is
a perfect candidate for it--the heart of this opposition may be that
she may be ashamed of what she thinks, because she does not experience
it directly.  This is not, I don't think, someone who experiences ESP.
This isn't someone who, driving home from work, and goes, I wonder, and
she has her mother pop into her head.  I'd be interested to know if she
has those feelings, and if she does, if she believes in them.  When you
have that gut reaction, Chopra says you--

K: Are you basing this on the moon in Gemini?

C: Yeah.

K: I have the moon in Gemini too, and what I've found, is that I have a
*lot* of ESP, but I talk myself out of it.

C: That's exactly right!  You'll get something and not go with it!

K: It's something that's just been astounding to me, because I'm
realizing how much I use my ESP on a daily basis and I've never been
consciously aware of it.

C: Well... I don't see any gut-level stuff happening here.  Her water's
all in Scorpio, which is not... there's not Cancer and there's not
Pisces... the water's even...

K: There's not a lot of empathy.

C: There's not a lot of empathy, yeah.  It's not like this person has
had those past lives of tremendous suffering and pain and the kinds of
things that those placements give you.  Natural knowing those
things...

K: She does have Cancer on the nadir, which gives her a foundation in
empathy, but there's a desire to be of use to be of use to the planet,
to help people, but it's not empathy, it's a much more rational
approach.  I don't see her going to Africa to feed the starving masses,
but I see her working from a much higher plane, to try to alleviate
suffering for people that she doesn't ever have to meet.

C: Well, she's in an excellent position to have a foot in both worlds.
She has the credentials.  Remember what we talked about in your chart,
being able to have the correct credentials, and the right placement of
planets, that you're an objective witness to the metaphysical.  And
that you are able to almost bring back from those studies something and
give it a practical application that can prove it to people on their
level.

K: That's a real lonely place to be, having a foot in both worlds.  I
mean, you're constantly trying to juggle what you know is other
people's reality.

C: But I don't see this person having a lot of self-doubt.

K: Well, it may be easier for her than it is for me.

C: Yeah, oh, yeah, well, I absolutely think so, you've got that
sun/Mercury thing happening.  But what I'm saying, her moon in Gemini
opposing Mars in Sag in the 8th, just looking at that one opposition,
talk about talking yourself out of that which naturally interests you
because it may not be packaged in a way which you feel... I'm not
expressing it correctly... Mars in Sag in the 8th is almost a freedom
fighter for that kind of thinking.  Think of all that energy delving
into... all of these things, whether it be ESP, or yoga, or Eastern
philosophy, or the whole idea of the supernatural... there's a natural
interest there, but the moon in Gemini in the 2n house may just mean
that she would have a struggle, intellectually doubting herself,
wondering if that inclination is correct.  Does that make sense?  I'm
not sure if I'm saying that correctly.

K: Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth there.  I was just thinking,
while you were talking, about her having written this paper on
astrology?  You know, which she approched from a historical
perspective, which I think was a very tactful and perceptive way for
her to introduce the subject of astrology in an acceptable setting--

C: Yes!

K: In an acceptable way.

C: Yes!  In an acceptable way.  This person has the credentials to be
in both worlds and to bring back information to the other one.  To the
standard academia, whether it be writing a paper for college or for
high school or whatever.  Absolutely, absolutely, she's got the
credentials.

K: And there was nothing in that paper that said whether she believed
it or disbelieved it--

C: That's classic retrograde Mercury in Scorpio...

K: Well, it's also a recognition that if she showed any indication that
she believed anything about it, then she would, ah, get a lower grade!
And she would bring her own scientific judgement into question by those
people who reject all this stuff out of hand.  As soon as you admit
that you believe in that sort of stuff, it makes you suspect, until you
earn the credentials to be able to admit it.

C: What did she say about the history of it?  How did she research it?

K: I haven't really talked-- she sent me a copy of the paper, but I
haven't--

C: Have you read it?

K: Yeah--

C: Is it good?

K: Yeah, I saved it because it's stuff that--

C: Did she bring up people liek Galileo and Copernicus and the rest of
them?

K: It's been awhile since I've read it, but yeah, she brought up a lot
of stuff that I didn't already know.

C: Interesting.  Did she tell you where she researched it?

K: No, but I'll ask her when I see her next.

C: Well, I'd love to read it, too.  I always like to read about the
history of astrology, I'm starved for information about it.  There's so
little.  I'm always disappointed with the things that I read. ...But
this person has a head-start on a higher consciousness, other than the
standard Western approach to all things.

K: Yeah, that's true.

C: But, I tell you the truth, other than that, I don't even know what
else to make of it.

K: What about her relationships?  Let's look at the individual houses,
because we only have 3 to look at!  But all those planets in the sixth
house, what do you make of that?

C: Well, obviously this person would be excellent with any kind of
research, with the Venus conjunct Jupiter in Virgo in its own house.

K: You think that career and work are really going to be her major love
in life, or do you think that she will actually find true love?

C: Yeah, she may find true love with someone else who's--

K: Interested in the same things?

C: She's got Venus in Virgo though, and the moon in Gemini-- huh,
doesn't that sound familiar--

K: Yeah, she may marry late.

C: But she also may... but there's a fire there in the oven, because of
all that the sun and Uranus in Scorpio... If she wants--she doesn't
know what she wants now, but this is someone who is capable of very
deep and possessive and jealous love.  Probably would never express
it.  That probably would be the one area of fear, would be the fear of
rejection one-on-one, because you know how Scorpio is.  Scorpio doesn't
like to reveal itself, and when it does, God forbid, that you should
reject it.

K: Yeah, really.  Yeah, that Mercury in retrograde just spoke there.

C: And Uranus in Scorpio would mean meeting someone, maybe being with
someone who's not necessarily a lifelong friend or someone you work
with side by side, but someone you meet on a bus, someone you meet in
passing.  I'm still looking at Pluto in Libra in the seventh, and I'm
not getting anything from that at all, no aspects to anything.  It's
sextile to Neptune.

K: It's sextile to Neptune, and semi-sextile to Uranus and Venus.

C: I've never understood semi-sextiles that well.

K: Oh, and Uranus and Venus are sextile to eachother.  I see her
falling in love with somebody she works with.  And maybe even being in
a partnership with somebody, like a husband-wife team, kind of thing.

C: But I also see her falling in love with someone who's very much like
her father.  Same temperment as her father, maybe even the same
career.  The same *kind* of man.  A lot of people say, oh, well, that's
natural, that's how girls are.  I don't think that's true.

K: Not if they don't like their fathers.

C: Yeah.

K: Well, her father's a good man.  I mean, I really like Slade, I
respect him a lot.  He's got a wonderful sense of values.  He's a good
person.  So I wouldn't blame her for falling in love with someone like
him.

C: But to tell you the truth, besides that, I don't even know what else
to discuss in a chart like this.  This seems to be a very gifted,
talented person with very few karmic hang-ups that she has to work out
in this lifetime, it looks like her whole picture is very much
forward-looking, rather than settling problems of the past.

K: Yeah, well, that's interesting, that she came in with a purpose, and
her purpose is to uplift the planet in some way.

C: Yeah, I mean, she's absolutely, I think she should be a researcher,
and she should be interested in the physical and metaphysical.  She is
in a unique, has a unique opportunity to bring the two together.

K: If I see any problems, I wonder about the intensity of her personal
relationships, for one thing.  I can see very intense jealousies and
fears and, like you say, being deeply wounded by rejection.  To the
point where she might be afraid to try again and could potentially, if
she doesn't get over it, could end up being very lonely.  I see one of
those.  Also, Venus square Neptune.

C: Ah, yes, I didn't know Venus was square Neptune.  There's that
coolness again.  See there's an icy side here, with the retrograde
Mercury, she may hide her feelings.  She's got a lot of icy things in
this chart, whether it be Venus in Virgo, the moon in Gemini, but also,
Venus being square to Neptune--

K: What about holding grudges?

C: Oooooh...

K: Like you say, iciness, maybe somebody who's hurt her once, she
might not ever forgive them, but she might not let them know that?

C: Yeah.  Yeah.  I'm sorry to see Venus square to Neptune... I have
them conjunct, but square, I can't even imagine.

K: Yeah, I was trying to make some sense of that, too.

C: Well, Neptune is in Sag anywhere, so Neptune certainly understands a
love of freedom and independent thinking.  But being square to Venus in
Virgo... it may be a loev of independent thinking being at odds with a
very inhibiting environment for work.  This individual is going to be a
bit of an upstart in her work environment.

K: Or chafe against not doing it.

C: Yeah, because it happens in her house of work, and it's square to
Neptune being in Sag, and again, Neptune being in the eighth house, an
interest in the metaphysical, paranormal, that intellectual freedom
that Neptune in Sage wants.

K: Maybe there's like a longing for freedom that she doesn't feel able
to express in her work?

C: Yeah, she has to be careful not to be inhibited by her work
environment.    And again, I see the iciness.  Very difficult to
warm up, probably because of embarrassment.  Probably very sexually
inhibited.  If she becomes confortable with someone, that's a different
story, but I think getting comfortable with someone would be a real
trial for this person.

K: Because of that fear of rejection.

C: The problem is, with someone with this many planets in Scorpio in
the 7th house is that they don't even know they're afraid of
rejection.  They just are so used to guarding their feelings, or
guarding their thoughts, and being so personal... that I'm trying to
think of how to even word this to even get through to this person!
Because it's like Tristan, he's like, "Who?  Me guarded?"  He'll alter
his body language when he comes back into the room to hide the fact of
why he's come back.  For his keys!  He thinks that's normal.  He
doesn't know he's hiding, he just thinks that those are private
things.  It's not necessary for everyone to know that you forgot your
keys.  It's so beautifully rationalized.  It's the beauty of the
rationalization.